Episode 111 AP Table Talk: Tech Trees Tech Tracks

AP Table Talk: Tech Trees Tech Tracks

Episode Summary:

In this episode of AP Table Talk, hosts Brian and Dave Eng focus on "tech tree" and “tech track” games. They emphasize how tech trees are a central component of many video games and board games, offering players various strategic paths and upgrades. They mention games like "Tapestry" and "Space Station Phoenix" that use tech tracks and tech trees for engine-building and resource management. They also explore how tech trees can add complexity and thematic depth to games and highlight the importance of balancing different strategies. They touch upon games like "Civilization" and "Terraforming Mars" and discuss the idea of introducing legacy elements to tech trees, allowing progress across multiple plays. The episode provides insights into how tech trees enhance gameplay in various genres and why they are a popular game mechanic.

Brian Eng:

Hello and welcome to AP Table Talk, a podcast where we explore board games and what makes them interesting to us. My name is Brian and I'm joined by my cousin Dave, who is also the reason why fruit roll-ups have a warning to remove the plastic before consuming. How's it going, Dave?

Dave Eng:

What's up, Brian? How's it going?

Brian Eng:

All Right. Sounds like we're both have a little bit of a recovery going on today, but-

Dave Eng:

That's true.

Brian Eng:

I don't think that'll stop us too much.

Dave Eng:

That's true. I got to stop eating those fruit roll-ups with the plastic on though. I just find it so delicious.

Brian Eng:

What's our mechanic today?

Dave Eng:

All right, so for this episode of AP Table Talk, we're actually going to be talking about tech trees/tech tracks, but we'll just call it tech trees for this episode.

Brian Eng:

Okay. So, I will give my off the cuff definition here. So when I think of tech trees, I'm thinking of a game where throughout you are unlocking abilities or actions or some other improvement like stats or buildings that you can build, that kind of thing, but you gain them by kind of unlocking them sequentially or in a hierarchy if it's a tree or if it's a track, then just it's one after the other kind of thing. Generally, I think it's usually researching technology, is a way that it's portrayed in games. I do associate this a lot with video games.

Dave Eng:

Definitely.

Brian Eng:

I think there'll be some crossover talk in this episode.

Dave Eng:

Yeah, definitely. All right, cool. Thanks, Brian.

So I'm going to turn to the definition that's listed on Board Game Geek as of this recording. So under the tech trees/tech tracks definition, Board Game Geek listed as, "During the course of the game, new actions become available to specific players, or existing actions are improved. These are often themed as technologies, but do not need to be. Sometimes this is expressed as a tree or gaining one tech unlocks multiple other techs. Or can be a track, where advancing along the track unlocks upgrades or new actions.

So that's what tech trees and tech tracks look according to BGG.

Brian Eng:

Okay. Yeah, I think that's pretty clear. I think any kind of gamer understands the tech tree.

Dave Eng:

That's true. But we're going to dive deeply into it with our major examples. And if you have not listened to an episode of AP Table Talk in the past, what Brian and I like to do, is we both have D20s right now, and we're going to both roll them. Whoever rolls higher is going to lead off our discussion on this section. So Brian, I'm ready to roll when you are.

Brian Eng:

All right, I'm ready as well.

Dave Eng:

All right, count it off.

Brian Eng:

Go ahead. I roll.

Dave Eng:

All right. You rolled already? I have 16.

Brian Eng:

I got eight. So-

Dave Eng:

All right.

Brian Eng:

You can go ahead and do... So our first one will be our biggest or most noteworthy tech tree game.

Dave Eng:

Sure, sure. All right, so I will lead off this one. So the question is most noteworthy/biggest tech tree game in our opinion, and I'm going to have to go with the one that I think Brian and I have played the most, and it's going to be Beyond the Sun. We just completed the game on Board Game Arena right now.

So for me, I remember, Brian, you introduced this game to me. You're like, "We got to play this game, because it's essentially just tech trees." And I'm like, "That's not a good selling point. Why else should we play this game?" And you're like, "No, no, no, trust me, we should play this game, because it's tech trees." And I'm like, "Okay, we'll try it." And we tried it, and I really like it. I have the actual physical copy. We played it on BGA a ton. I just looked up your stats, Brian. I think you have an 88% win rate on Beyond the Sun, which just means I'm like, "I'm never playing this game again." And I bet you a month from now, I'll be like, "Yeah, we should play Beyond the Sun again." But for me, number one, because like you said, Brian, the tech tree is a significance part of Beyond the Sun, it's not the only thing, but--

Brian Eng:

It's 80% of that game is a tech tree.

Dave Eng:

It's the chassis that the game is built on. It's built around that tech tree. And then the definition, there's new opportunities to explore different areas of the tree, but other parts of the game that are also included. Because the theme is space exploration, so you can control other planets, you can control them, you can colonize them. There's an engine building aspect. The technologies, I think, that you research really open up your options or limit you to a very specific path, again, depending on how you want to use the tech tree because it's a common element in the game.

Also, what I really like about it is that it's not conflict heavy. There is conflict in the game. I don't think you can get around the game without it, but it works very well with the Euro crowd, in that, conflict is basically just, 'Well, my spaceships are more powerful on this planet, so I control the planet and I'll colonize it before you.' But other than that, it's not really a war game. See, I would say it's more of a tech tree focused game and an engine building game more than anything else.

Brian Eng:

And I feel even the conflict that's there, the mitigation to the punishment of losing that they put in. So in Beyond the Sun, you race to colonize some planets. So, you have your ships on each of the planets. If someone colonizes before you, since it's not battle, you don't lose your ships, they just move into a central location so it doesn't feel like a complete loss, especially if you're in that lower planet, because it kind of pushes you up closer to the other planets.

Dave Eng:

Yeah, that's true.

Brian Eng:

Yeah, I agree. It's very minimal direct conflict.

Dave Eng:

Although, I did play the game once in person with three players, and the map, the space map is completely different. So, when I did play it with three-

Brian Eng:

Oh, that's right. That is what changes.

Dave Eng:

It's completely different. I would still say that the game works well with all player counts, although again, I think the most I've ever played it with three, I think it'll go up to four, but it's enjoyable. I really like it. It's my number one.

Brian Eng:

Yeah, that's definitely a game I like as well. It was on my shortlist for this section.

Dave Eng:

Nice. What about you?

Brian Eng:

But the one I put in was, so of generally decided I was putting in a 4X game. So for those unfamiliar, 4X is civilization games. 4X stands for, explore, expand, exploit, exterminate. So I always think of Civilization. Mainly, I grew up with the video game, and I haven't played the Civilization board game. So the one I put in is actually Eclipse.

Dave Eng:

Oh, okay.

Brian Eng:

Which actually has an interesting twist on a tech tree. It doesn't have your typical, it almost doesn't actually fit our definition that we talked about, but I would still call it a tech tree. It gives you that feeling. And part of it was the designer's, he wanted to have something more flexible for a board game. So, the technologies are randomly drawn each game and they fit into each category. And there isn't necessarily a prerequisite in the sense of you need this technology before you get this other one. So, in typical civilization games, for example, you would need to research the wheel before you researched cars, or something like that.

But because these are all these futuristic sci-fi technologies, he decided, well you know what, there's no precedence here. So, you can research them in any order. They just have a cost, a research cost. And the way to feel the progression in that game is that there's three categories of technologies, and as you research more into one category, you get a discount. So, the more you did military research, for example, the cheaper your military research will be. So, you can specialize and go down one track or you can diversify, but it's going to be more expensive.

Dave Eng:

Right. So based on that, and it's been a while since I played Eclipse, Brian, is that, it sounds more like a tech track than anything.

Brian Eng:

It is like separate tech tracks, yes.

Dave Eng:

Right, right. And then you could say, as you specialize, you just get a discount. So, you're encouraged to specialize, I guess with Eclipse.

Brian Eng:

You're encouraged to specialize from a cost standpoint, but you also get points depending on how far you make it in each track. So, there are rewards for diversifying as well.

Dave Eng:

Oh, I see.

Brian Eng:

It kind of gives you some flexibility in how you want to play and it eliminates, actually, you know what, I'll probably come back to this in other parts in our discussion today. So maybe we'll just move on for now, then we'll talk about that later.

Dave Eng:

Okay. So, we'll go onto to the...

Brian Eng:

So that was my one for the most noteworthy.

Dave Eng:

Okay, we'll go onto number two here.

Brian Eng:

So, your first tech tree game that you played.

Dave Eng:

Okay. So I was looking for other examples here, because once I talked about Beyond the Sun, I'm like, "Okay, well that is a game about tech trees. What other games have tech trees or tech tracks that I could talk about?" So my number two example was for the first tech tree game I listed here is Scythe. And I went with Scythe because it's not what I think other people would call as the quintessential tech tree or track game.

But what I like about it, and after further investigation and discussion, if you look at those individual player maps and then you see that upgrade action, you can see the connection here where you will spend resources or actions early on in the game to upgrade an action. So later on when you take that action, it costs less. So, it gives you additional benefits later down the road. And when I first learned how to play Scythe, that was a very unfamiliar and alien concept for me. But now I feel like it just works so well, because even if you look at it from a component standpoint, you're just moving the component around on the board, and that component covers up or uncovers different things that allow you to take a more powerful action later on. So that's my number two for the first one I've ever played.

Brian Eng:

That's another one of our favorite games. I think both of us, I had a lot of similar games on my list. I did not have that one as in my first tech tree games. And I was trying to think of my first board game tech tree. Because again, my brain immediately goes to video games when I think of tech trees. So I was having trouble figuring out which was the first one. But I came down to, I believe that the first tech tree game I played was 7 Wonders.

Dave Eng:

Okay.

Brian Eng:

And again, not your typical tech tree, it's almost ``mixed in with a tableau building tech tree. Whereas, if you have certain prerequisites when you draft your cards, you can get things for free or discounts or whatnot. I mean that is one of the more classic games. So that might be one of the earlier tech tree games, I guess, that aren't 4X games.

Dave Eng:

Well, yeah, I mean now that you're bringing it up, I think I played 7 Wonders before I played Scythe, so that might be my first one.

Brian Eng:

Maybe. Yeah. It's hard sometimes to know what your first one was.

Dave Eng:

Right, right.

Brian Eng:

Yeah.

Dave Eng:

All right.

Brian Eng:

All right, so now moving on to your favorite tech tree game.

Dave Eng:

So, this is number three favorite tech tree.

Brian Eng:

So, both of the ones you've named I thought were contenders for you to put as your favorite tech tree game. Because I know you're a big fan of both of those games.

Dave Eng:

Yeah, I am. But actually, the number one I listed for my favorite one was, and we talked about this prior to us recording this episode, where the amount of time and effort that goes into bringing new games to the table can often be arduous. So for number three, what I listed as my favorite one, and Brian and I, we played a bunch of these, and I played a lot of these games in person online, is Age of Civilization. Because I have the physical copy. Brian and I played, I think at least a dozen games on BGA. Because it's so fast. And because it's fast and because you're limited with the number of turns, every action you take in a game is consequential.

But it comes at a cost. I would say that one of the costs is if you play the base game, everyone's working with the same tech tree. There's no hidden techs, everyone has to progress the same way. That's always the same for the base game, but I also feel like it's approachable because if you're teaching the game to someone, you can just say like, 'Hey listen, these are the nine things you can research over the course of the game. Everyone's got the same thing.' And then people generally understand, if you want this at the very top, you have to research the two below it or take the Y direction through the middle or anything else. I think though that, as you and I have discovered, if you play it a lot, it can get stale, even if you use the expansions, which I think are pretty cool. But I still like its approachability and that's why Age of Civilization is my number one tech tree game.

Brian Eng:

Actually, that one was a surprise one because we started playing that as one of our games to research for this episode. And I was surprised how much I liked it. For the depth, for the length of time, it was just about right. I do agree, we went pretty hard into it and played a lot. So I did get a little tired by the end, but I could definitely see myself going back to that one. I enjoyed it.

So, sorry, the tech tree, I know when we played, because that was my first time playing, was on BGA with you. So swapping out, I know you can pay that dollar to swap out portions of your tech tree. So that is an expansion.

Dave Eng:

That's an expansion, yeah.

Brian Eng:

Okay. Yes. Because I do like that.

Dave Eng:

I feel like that would be necessary to prevent the game from getting stale.

Brian Eng:

And I think once you've introduced that, it would be hard to go back to playing without that.

Dave Eng:

Yeah, I agree. What about you Brian? What's your number one?

Brian Eng:

My favorite tech tree game, and I did go with my favorite tech tree centric game, as opposed to my favorite game that just happens to have a tech tree in it. And I went with Beyond the Sun, actually.

Dave Eng:

Oh nice.

Brian Eng:

Because again, it was, as we talked about earlier, as soon as I saw this game and looked at some play-throughs, I'm like, this game is a big tech tree and I enjoy tech trees, so I can't think of a better game that is just essentially really a tech tree.

Dave Eng:

I mean, it is what it is. It doesn't mince words about what it does.

Brian Eng:

I like that. And it's almost infinitely evolving tech tree as well, because it's randomly distributed. So I'm wondering, I don't think I've seen any sort of expansion talk for it, but it would be easy to just throw more tech in there or even just give you a new board of how the techs unlock kind of thing or whatnot.

Dave Eng:

The expansions I'm chasing right now that I have up for want and trade are like, they're additional techs, the cards and additional planets. And I feel like that's just a very simple addition to make printing new cards.

Brian Eng:

Which is perfect for what that game is. So there are some in the works then?

Dave Eng:

Yeah. Well, I mean they're available now. I just don't know how available they are to get these expansions.

Brian Eng:

So again, just adding those extra cards could give a lot more life to that game if you've played it. I mean, I don't feel like I've overplayed it, but if you're at that point, I could see how just adding a few more tech, a few more planets, and suddenly it's fresh again.

Dave Eng:

Right. Cool.

Brian Eng:

All right. Okay, so that is our major examples of tech tree games. So we can move on to our next segment.

Dave Eng:

Yes. So, for our next segment, if you've listened to AP Table Talk before, this is usually the part where Brian and I like to talk about our likes and dislikes for the game, but we decided to change it up. For this episode, we are going to be talking about different aspects of the mechanic. And these aspects are different thematic elements that we've identified after playing a bunch of games with tech trees and tech tracks and also analyzing the mechanic a little bit.

So, we are going to lead off this section with a dice roll again. I have about eight of these shared aspects. Brian and I will be addressing some of them. Brian may or may not be using the same list, but we're going to go through this list sequentially and discuss it in turn. And then Brian, with this one, we're going to lead off with the die roll again. Is that right?

Brian Eng:

All right. I'm ready when you are.

Dave Eng:

So, roll in 3, 2, 1.

Brian Eng:

All right, I've got a six. My rolls are not so great today.

Dave Eng:

I have a five. You just beat me.

Brian Eng:

All right. So, the first aspect on the list here I have is progression or achievement. And I see that as the sense of, what the tech tree or tech track can give you is, as you're playing, you get that sense of achievement that you're progressing, that you're growing. Either it's your character or your civilization or whatever it is that your representation in the game is having, those small accomplishments that keep you motivated in the game. So, I would say that, oh, so one thing we're going to do is for each aspect we'll say if that's something that we like or dislike about that aspect in terms of board games for us. So yeah, that is definitely something that I like about tech trees and board games.

Dave Eng:

So again, I think we echo a lot of the same sentiment here. I like the progression and achievement aspect because it is a very visual way of representing how you're moving in the game. Again, I go back to my example of Age of Civilization, because there is a tech tree there. Those techs, if you're playing the base game or open, everyone's got the same tech tree. It's not that big, but the first three techs are kind of engine building, meaning that they give specific actions, like a little bit of a discount or a little bit of an addition.

So again, I like that aspect. It's very transparent, it shows that you're moving in the game, it shows that you're getting discounts or further improved actions later on. And it's just a really great way of visually representing what players are doing, what they're building in the game. So, I think that's a quintessential and critical aspect to tech trees.

Brian Eng:

All right, so you want to lead off on our second aspect there?

Dave Eng:

Yeah sure. So, our second aspect here is depth and strategy. And for every aspect here, Brian, I also try to link it with a particular game in order to give our listeners some additional insight on what I'm thinking about here. So depth and strategy I think are very well linked to tech trees because the game can be made very, very modular from here. And we talked about this with Beyond, the Sun, which is again the game I'm going to reference here. So the starting technologies and Beyond the Sun are all basically the same. However, where they get placed on the tech tree, and I'm going to tell viewers, not viewers, I'm going to tell listeners this, if you have not played Beyond the Sun before, but the tech tree is not symmetrical. So, there are certain parts of the tech tree which give closer access to level two, level three and level four tech.

So the four starting technologies are always the same, but where they're placed in the tech tree are different. And that gives you a little bit of depth and strategy, in addition to which player goes first because the initiative I think is also important. Beyond the Sun. Further technologies also get better and better, but with added costs because it requires dependencies in order to research them. And Brian and I have never played it before, but there is an aspect of Beyond the Sun where the tech trees are not set from a deck. Because if you play the base game right now, you just draw different techs from a deck level one, level two, level three, level four techs, but there's actually a grid, a matrix you can make so that you know what techs are coming up and you can draft them before your opponents can. So I think it-

Brian Eng:

Gives you a little more ability to plan ahead then.

Dave Eng:

Yeah. Because you can see, oh, for this game these are the level four techs. And we know that they're going to come up. It's up to us to determine who's going to get it first, basically with initiative. But I think that with tech tree games and especially Beyond the Sun, this adds a lot of opportunity to increase your depth and strategy.

Brian Eng:

Yeah, definitely agree. I like that you get these different paths to victory. You can choose, do you want to go heavy on one branch or the other. Or I guess an example that I can think of is Tapestry, which, as opposed to tech trees, I would say it has four tech tracks. And you can kind of go heavy on one or two or all. You can try to go to all of them. And it's a trade-off to choose between them, and it gives some interesting decisions there.

Dave Eng:

Tapestry's-

Brian Eng:

Where you want to spend your resources-

Dave Eng:

In general?

Brian Eng:

Yeah, in general, to get whatever advantages you can find with them.

Dave Eng:

Tapestry's one of those games that we also started playing on BGA I think I played the game once in person, and then every single play after that has been on BGA. But it also just reached a point for us, Brian, I don't know if you felt the same when I was like, I think I'm just done with this game. I think I got as much out of this game as I'm going to get. It's not my favorite game and there are other games I think I'd rather play, but I think I'm okay with it. I got as much out of it as possible.

Brian Eng:

Yeah, I know they have had some expansions. I wouldn't mind trying it again at different player counts to see if that felt different. But I think we had played quite a few, two-player games, just me and you, and was just like, "Okay, yeah, I enjoyed it," but I was just done. But yeah, that was another one that felt very much the way I felt after Age of Civilization.

Dave Eng:

Right, Brian. All right, should we go into number three, Brian, with dependencies.

Brian Eng:

So dependencies, so this one I kind of lumped in with a future topic here, but so dependencies, meaning I guess that each node on the tech track or tech tree has a prerequisite of something else. And so this adds some complexity in the sense that you need to build up to those better powers or better abilities that get unlocked.

So again, it adds to that feeling that you are growing or you're getting more powerful in a game. So, I do like that, but for some people it could add some complexity in strategy and determining the path you want to take and whether or not you want, maybe there's four steps beforehand where you don't really care about those things, but you really want that fifth step, so you're just going to do it anyways and go through those dependencies to get to that. So that can be middling for me, is sometimes it's like that trade off, but it does give you an interesting choice.

Dave Eng:

Yeah, that's true. And I'd say that, particularly when you're talking about tech trees with a traditional symmetrical tree, you need those, usually those dependencies in order to research something that's further up on the tech tree. My game that I am using for the example here is Scythe, because just like Age of Civilization, it provides a clear hierarchy of what you need to do to accomplish something before proceeding. I'm talking about just the upgrade action where you're moving a component from the top of your player board to the bottom of the player board. And what I think is cool here is that, again, because its component limited, you're basically uncovering one part of your board covering up a different part of the board. So, something, an action later produces more of a commodity and it requires less of a commodity in order to take a bottom row action later.

But what I particularly like about Scythe here is that, I think you said it best, Brian, when we first played it in person, is that you never want to be in a position where you can only take one of your actions. You always want to be able to take both, because the game is very much about your action economy. If you can only take one, it's like a waste. You are only using 50% of your abilities at that point. And I really like that aspect of Scythe. And again, it's not a tech tree in its traditional format, but more of a tech track where you're, again, uncovering something and covering up something else. I just think it's done really well and elegantly in that format.

Brian Eng:

Yeah, I remember when you first introduced me to Scythe and that upgrade system, I don't think I've seen another game use that system.

Dave Eng:

No.

Brian Eng:

Where you uncover one section and cover it, and I think it's great. It just works so well in that game.

All right, so on to asymmetry.

Dave Eng:

Yeah, you want to lead off this?

Brian Eng:

Sure. So, asymmetry. So, again, just by its nature of a tech tree, because you can choose those different paths as you progress through the game, players may be at different points in that path. So, you can have very different abilities, very different goals, immediate goals. The one that comes to mind that I can think of, going back to my 4X example of Eclipse, and I'll just focus on one aspect of that tech is, so a big part of that is upgrading your ships and building your fleet, your spaceships. And as you play that and you upgrade them with your different tech that you unlock, one race can be very firepower heavy, whereas another one can focus on speed or stealth, and even though they started with the same abilities, can be drastically different partway through the game.

And I definitely like that. I like my games have lots of asymmetric powers and things like that. And this, even though you can start non-asymmetric, that game you can choose either way, but it gives you that path that you can tailor it either the way you think is most advantageous or the way you like to play and that kind of thing.

Dave Eng:

Going back to Eclipse though, so you played it in person only?

Brian Eng:

Yes.

Dave Eng:

Did you play with the mod with the missiles? Because I remember that was a point of contention.

Brian Eng:

We discussed, because we had read a forum post about it, and we decided for the first play we'll play the rules as written.

Dave Eng:

Okay.

Brian Eng:

And I immediately loaded up-

Dave Eng:

You need missiles-

Brian Eng:

One type of my ships with a bunch of missiles, so that I can just annihilate people.

Dave Eng:

So if you're listening and you're totally confused about this conversation, the reason I bring this up is because like Brian said, with the ships Scythe, not Scythe, the ships and Eclipse, you can upgrade. And the main weapons are like phasers, like lasers and missiles, but operating the ship needs energy and your phasers need energy as well, but missiles do not. So, I learned from my first... Was that, Brian?

Brian Eng:

Oh, sorry. I was going to say the trade-off is that missiles are a one-time use.

Dave Eng:

Oh, they're one-time use. Okay.

Brian Eng:

So, when you engage in a battle, you can use the missiles one time in the start of the battle, and after that, you can't use them anymore. But I put them on my lowest cost ship, my little scout ships, and I just loaded as many as I could onto them, so that I could just alpha strike every... And if I lost them, then...

Dave Eng:

But if I remember correctly, Brian, wasn't there also an upgrade, like targeting computer, where basically, you hit on any roll, you're always going to hit.

Brian Eng:

So, I played the, I don't know if it's the newest version at this time, which is-

Dave Eng:

Third edition, I think.

Brian Eng:

I can't remember what it is, but yeah, I think it's the third edition. And in that one, so there are upgrades, targeting computer, which essentially, so you hit on certain numbers and the defender can have technology that reduces dice numbers down, and the attacker can have technology that can increase the dice number that they are.

Dave Eng:

Oh, I see.

Brian Eng:

And a certain number of dice and a certain type of dice. There's different colored dice that get rolled depending on the weapon that have more or less hits and whatnot. So you can increase your chance to hit. I don't know if there's anything that guarantees hits, but depending on what you're fighting, your hits may be guaranteed, just because of the fact they don't have a lot of defense.

Dave Eng:

Right, right. Well, I remember just getting obliterated by one of my opponents that just went heavy on missiles like you did. And I'm like, "I can't defend against this. I'm going to lose all my capital ships now."

Brian Eng:

It is definitely a strategy that you would have to prepare for, and I haven't played enough to really say whether I think it's balanced or unbalanced, but I know that the debate continues.

Dave Eng:

So that was a very wide tangent. We'll go back to asymmetry. So you talked about asymmetry, Brian, in relation to Eclipse and building the ships. I'm going to talk about asymmetry again, going back to Scythe and talking about specific action. So, an action in Scythe that you can take is build. You can build buildings. There are different buildings in Scythe, but what I like about the tree here is that you can make your build action very efficient, cost-efficient, in that you're using less wood, which I believe is the resource. But the building you build is going to be, I think a very tactical choice, in that you could build a windmill which gives you additional produce function. You could build a mine which gives you access to the map. I think that there's a lot of asymmetry already inside in terms of your industrial mat and your faction mat and your starting locations and starting resource and everything. There's a lot of complexity there.

But what I like, and I'm using for the example here, is that build function because everyone's got access to build. But your build may be more important if you're stuck in a particular part of the map and you need to build a mine really to get out and start exploring a little bit. Whereas my build might be like I have a very weak produce, so I need a windmill in order to make up for my lack of workers. And that's where I think that this asymmetry area really makes it so that there's a lot more, you may play the game a lot, but there's still room for interesting decisions.

Brian Eng:

Yeah, definitely, situational on, adding situational kind of awareness on which path you want to go for upgrades.

Dave Eng:

Right.

Brian Eng:

And whatnot.

Dave Eng:

All right.

Brian Eng:

Okay. You want to start on the next one?

Dave Eng:

All right, so for number five here I have balance. And I'm going to name a game that we have not yet talked about yet. And Brian, I don't think you've played, but it's one of my favorite games called Endeavor: Age of Sail. Have you played that game?

Brian Eng:

I have not.

Dave Eng:

Okay. This is out of Burnt Island Games. I pledged for this on Kickstarter I think years ago at this time. But Endeavor: Age of Sail is not a tech tree per se, it is specifically a tech track. So if I could say that Beyond the Sun was a tech tree centric game, Endeavor: Age of Sail is very much a tech track specific game.

So here, it's that all player boards have the same different tracks and you're resolving actions on a main board, which gives you tokens, which makes your individual tech tracks more efficient and more powerful or everything else. So, everything works on these individual tracks, and those are all open information. People can see where you're weak in an area or strong in an area and everything else. And it makes it so that all of different players have access to that same information, but the way that you prioritize and exploit different parts of the globe and the map and prioritize different tracks over something else gives you an incentive to proceed down one track versus another one. And it's one of my favorite games. It's one of those games I don't get on the table often, but I like it for the same reasons I like Beyond the Sun, because Beyond the Sun, again, focuses on the tree. This one focuses on the track.

Brian Eng:

Right. So, for balance, again, I think of - I guess this comes with asymmetry - in a lot of games, especially larger scope, it becomes really hard to find these dominant strategies or things that become unbalanced after hundreds of play. And these tech trees will be embedded in these games. So, I think it could be a double-edged sword when it comes to implementing them into a game, and can really make a game hit or miss.

And I am going to go back to what I was speaking about in Eclipse and the designer's choice to make this randomized tech tree. And what I was talking about was his goal of giving you that feeling, because in these 4X games, they're, epic scope games and giving you this feeling of these huge tech trees, but they're practically impossible to play test and to balance. So, by having them become dynamic and everyone is sharing that same dynamic tech tree, it doesn't create one path that becomes the meta, is like, "Oh well you have to upgrade along this path because that's the most efficient." It changes each game, which is something I really like. And I think he does bounce it. And now that I'm thinking of the game again, there are some basic techs that are always available to research. Just some of the smaller weapons, things like that so that at the early game, all those options are available and you don't get a bad draw of tactiles where it's like, oh well there's no weapons available at all.

Dave Eng:

Right. Yeah, I can imagine how that would kill your game of Eclipse if you had no weapons.

Brian Eng:

I do think that balancing can be difficult and can make or break a game that is dependent on its tech tree.

Dave Eng:

Right. Cool.

Brian Eng:

All right, so the next aspect I have on here is theme, in relation to it. And I mean, to me, the obvious theme related to tech trees is this idea to simulate scientific development, or as we talked about, researching, you need to research a wheel before you can research a car, kind of thing. And how accurate or inaccurate that is to real life. I do think that it does portray that very well, and games tend to use it in that way a lot as a development of a civilization or technology or research.

And I mean, I'm one who likes my thematic games, so I definitely when it's used in that sense. And again, you can look at any of the 4X games or any games that use it as researching knowledge or growing power for your character, and it can be very thematic in that sense.

Dave Eng:

I think that theme is also really important. And for the game that I'm referencing, again, I'm going to reference this, I referenced this before, I'm going to reference it for the next section is Endeavor Age of Sail. So, the four tracks that I remember I listed here is industry, culture, wealth and influence.

Again, everyone has the same tracks. And you're looking at this from the perspective of a European burgeoning power in the golden age of sail, which is between the 1550s and the 1850s. And here, since you are representing those individual European powers, you're looking to expand your industry cultural wealth and influence around the globe. So, the other regions of the globe that you play in are North and South America, India, the far East, Caribbean and Africa. And there's more about this I want to talk about. I'm a big evangelist for this game, as you can tell. If you've never played in Endeavor Age of Sail, I recommend you play it at least once. And I want to talk a little bit about it more in the educational aspect, but when it comes to theme, I'd say that this pretty closely aligns the individual tracks with the overall theme of the game, which is an emerging European power.

Brian Eng:

I mean, that's a good segue, I guess, into educational, and you're the expert in this one. So, I'll just briefly say that this ties in to theme, with me. And again, thinking about it as technological advancements and things like that is a very almost obvious link to how it could be educational, as long as your tech tree is made to be accurate in that sense. But I'm going to let you go more in depth in this section. Again, you're kind of the expert in this area here.

Dave Eng:

On the educational part?

Brian Eng:

Yes.

Dave Eng:

Okay. So for Endeavor Age of Sail, like I said in the previous section, those four tracks, industry, culture, wealth and influence, and you're always looking at this from the perspective of these emerging European powers. So, there's some really good educational elements in here, and I've written about this in the past. And there's a lot of good literature about it, and I'll include it in the show notes for this particular episode. But without mincing words, this game is basically about colonization, about different parts of the world, establishing governors in these different parts of the world that are based in that European superpower. And it also includes aspects of slavery, which are included as part of an industrial complex. And because it's based in this thematic element, it's actually included very well in the game.

I know, Brian, you haven't played it before, but the way that the slavery aspect is included is it's one of the mechanics that's part of the structural narrative of the game. It's part of an industrial aspect, in that it's very easy to invest your superpower into slavery because it provides a very powerful, economic driver. But what I think is an interesting aspect is if another player ever reaches a point or an event for an abolished slavery card, all the other players that invested in slavery get negative point influences. So, you can use it very early to increase your engine, but there's a thematic element that reduces victory points at the end for investing too far into it.

And I want to point out that I think talking about colonization and talking about slavery overall is a very difficult topic, but I think that this game does it really well. And I'm going to include a link in the description for this particular episode on playing with Endeavor Age of Sail as an educational component because I think it really demonstrates these concepts well and how it related to the overall implementation of colonization by Western powers throughout the world. And while it may have some difficult elements to it, I still think, one, it's a very thematic game, two, it's a very educational game, and three, it's a very fun game to play. And I keep telling people, you got to play more Endeavor Age of Sail, and I might play it this weekend.

Brian Eng:

Yeah, we're going to have to get this one to the table at some point.

Dave Eng:

Are you looking at pictures right now? Have you seen any?

Brian Eng:

No, I'm not right now, but it's on my list to look up after.

Dave Eng:

Yeah, it's a good one. It's a good one. I haven't played it in a few years now because I've been trying to get some other games off the list, but it's a good one. It's not one I'm willing to trade in anytime in the near future.

Brian Eng:

All right Okay, the next one I've got on here is the addition of complexity to a game by introducing a tech tree. And again, dependencies is one aspect of that. And when I think about how a tech tree adds complexity is in how it can be difficult for people to learn it a little bit better, there's a learning curve of understanding that tech tree.

One other aspect that I do find in some games is it can make it very hard to determine or to evaluate the game state at any point, especially if people have their own tech trees. So I'll use Age of Civilization as an example. In games with tech trees, I tend to go heavy on research, so I will look at that game and look at our tech tree portion of it and say, oh, well I've got more research so I'm doing better, but that's not necessarily true because there are valid strategies of almost completely ignoring the tech tree. And they have ways of getting bonuses for that. So that can kind of muddy the waters a little bit in how you are able to evaluate the game state and where you stand in the game.

Dave Eng:

I think that tech trees overall are their own level of complexity, and it may not be applicable for your game group to bring in a game that has a tech tree if people have not seen it before. And if they have not, you should start out with something relatively simple or fast like Age of Civilization. But the game I actually referenced here is, we just finished our play today, Brian, on BGA, which is Space Station Phoenix.

Brian Eng:

Oh, yeah.

Dave Eng:

Which, there's a lot going on in that game. And I played the game a few times, it was on my list, because I wanted to try it out. I don't think that this is a game I'd ever get to play in person, but I don't think I'd ever want to buy it and I don't know if anyone else has it, but eventually, essentially this game has a tech track. And what it does, and tell me if you feel differently, Brian, which it basically just makes you being able to take advantage of someone else's action, it has a follow action.

Brian Eng:

So you're speaking of the diplomacy board.

Dave Eng:

Yeah, the diplomacy board. Because I think that's essentially-

Brian Eng:

That's essentially their tech tracks.

Dave Eng:

Right, right?

Brian Eng:

And I don't know if it took me until later in the game to decide to try and push myself high up into it. I just decided I would stay ahead of you to get the bonuses, and then realized that I could have been getting better bonuses, but it was kind of late in the game at that point. But yeah, it is a tech track, but a very simple tech track.

Dave Eng:

And I think that is the only complexity it adds. It's basically just like, do you want to go up on the diplomacy board? Because by doing so, you're basically going to be able to piggyback on other people's actions. And if you can look at me and say like, oh, I think Dave's going to do a lot of building in this game, he has the ability to build a lot of things, I should get ahead of him on that track. So, whenever he takes that action, I get something from it.

Brian Eng:

Right, yes.

Dave Eng:

Which is like, when you talk about complexity, I think is a simple concept to share. So, I think that the tech tree or track in this game adds that complexity. It's not overwhelming. That's why I referenced it in this area.

Brian Eng:

Yes, the tech tree specifically for that game. Because that game had a lot to it. I think I thought I was doing pretty well. So for the record here, I lost that game pretty handily, I think. I thought I was doing pretty good. So for the listeners, when we play a new game, especially if it's a more complex one, I don't know about you, Dave, I tend to just skim the rules, and I figure I'll just learn it as we go. But I think the problem with that one was I thought I was doing pretty good, but I did not pay attention to the end game scoring, which added, I mean, I think it tripled or quadrupled our scores.

Dave Eng:

Based on the actions we took.

Brian Eng:

So that definitely was to my detriment there.

Dave Eng:

For those of you who haven't played it before, the best way I can explain it is that Space Station Phoenix is, it's an engine building game with tech tracks. And you get a bunch of ships at the beginning, and those ships allow you to take actions. But ultimately, you want to cannibalize those ships to get metal to build out your space station. Because your space station is how you end up building your engine and also scoring points at the end.

So building sections, Brian, are a really good way of earning points, but also getting up on that diplomacy track so that you can take advantage of other people's actions. There's just many different ways to score points, and you just don't know about it until the very end when everything gets tallied.

Brian Eng:

Yeah, I did the thematic aspects of that cannibalizing the ships-

Dave Eng:

To make your space station.

Brian Eng:

That was kind of neat. Yeah, I like that.

Dave Eng:

Oh, you know why I wouldn't get? Is because it takes up a ton of table space. You have all those cards out and all the space station parts...

Brian Eng:

You can only look at sections of the game at a time.

Dave Eng:

Yeah, I was like, "I don't even have enough monitor real estate. There's no way I'm going to have table real estate for this game." So no, it's a pass for me.

Brian Eng:

Yeah, no, BGA, that's how I'll play that one.

Dave Eng:

All right. Should we go into number nine here? Did you combine this one?

Brian Eng:

Which one was this? This is the downtime analysis paralysis. Our namesake here of our show. Yeah, so I mean I didn't combine it, but it is linked, I think to complexity, in the sense that once it becomes too complex, you introduce too many choices, too much time for planning, which can lead to too big downtime, especially if you have huge complex tech trees.

And one of the things we were talking about Beyond the Sun, that variant where you'd know all the tech that's going to come. And I think that while that's interesting, I think that that should only be to seasoned players of that game. Because I could definitely even see myself, I don't feel that I've played it enough where I was like, yeah, there's going to be a lot more downtime if I know all the tech tracks. I like that that game is, I would say that's in the middle there. It's not too complex, but it's not too simple either. But I think the game plays pretty quickly, and part of that is because you only have limited information about what that tech tree is going to come ahead. So, a lot of the times I'm just like, I want to research something else. And I almost like that unknown of what you're going to get when you flip the card over. So, I thought that was interesting.

Dave Eng:

It's not always completely unknown because you get to see what the previous tech was and then-

Brian Eng:

You get their categories, which is just enough information to make kind of a decision. But yeah, I mean I wouldn't mind trying it the other way, but I like the way it is with not fully knowing what that next tech will be.

Dave Eng:

Yeah, I agree. My aspect for downtime analysis paralysis, I'm going to flip this because I had played a bunch of games of Space Station Phoenix, and I played Brian on BGA, totally hosed him, which felt great. But the opposite is Brian and I tried to play Gaia Project on BGA. And I remember we played it at PAX Unplugged either the first year or the second year, and we were like, "You know what? This game is highly rated." We learned from the rule book. Took a while because it's not an easy game. We played, I think maybe half of it, and we're like, "Ah, I'm hungry. I don't think we can stay for the rest."

Brian Eng:

I just think our learning phase took a long time. I think we got close to finishing it and then we just rushed the last couple of rounds.

Dave Eng:

So we did finish that game.

Brian Eng:

I think we did. We rushed it. I think it was closing, they were kicking us out.

Dave Eng:

Oh, okay. All right. So that's why.

Brian Eng:

I still enjoyed that game. But yeah, it's definitely a heavier weight one.

Dave Eng:

Well, I thought that I could just pick it up after we left it off. And I didn't watch anything. So we just playing and I'm like, "Okay, I guess I'll build the mine because that's what I can do right now. I don't know if mines are important or anything else." So I'm just like, when we were playing that game, Brian on BGA, I'm just like, I'm just going to do whatever I can right now. I don't know if it's the best move, but I know I can build a mine. So you know what? A mine's going to get built…

But I mean, I think this goes further down that rabbit hole, where I'm a seasoned game player, despite the fact that I did not do any research for Gaia Project. I was very lost. I can't imagine if someone who's never played any games with tech trees is approaching a game with a tech tree for the first time. So, there is an opportunity to have a lot of analysis paralysis, especially in a game that has a lot of downtime because of that time you need to make a good decision.

Brian Eng:

I mean, the tech tree itself isn't too bad. It's really just the buildings, I think, in that game is the tech tree. But there's a lot of gears in that game, a lot of spinning wheels, so I wouldn't recommend it to a new gamer.

Dave Eng:

No, no.

Brian Eng:

Okay. So I think that wraps up everything I've got for our aspects segment.

Dave Eng:

Same thing for me. Should we go onto the next segment?

Brian Eng:

Yeah, our twists and variations. So I don't have too much this time in here. I've got a little bit.

Dave Eng:

Are we going to roll the dice for initiative, Brian?

Brian Eng:

Should we do our roll for initiative?

Dave Eng:

All right, so I'm going to roll.

Brian Eng:

Count it off.

Dave Eng:

Three, two, one, go.

Brian Eng:

All right. I got a six again.

Dave Eng:

Brain, I got eight.

Brian Eng:

All right.

Dave Eng:

Just barely.

Brian Eng:

Go ahead and start us off there.

Dave Eng:

All right. So for twists and variations, my number one here, I am calling it global and personal state for tech trees and tracks. So I would like to see a new game or new games in the future that play with different versions of global tech trees and tracks and personal ones. So when I say that, I'm talking about, like in Age of Civilization, everyone has the same tech track, but it is a personal track. Whereas in Beyond the Sun, it is a public tech track, but not everyone may have access to it. And I would like to see a mix up between global tech trees and personal tech trees or tech tracks, and in some kind of combination, like maybe you could use a tech of someone else on their personal tech track or not everyone has access to a global one or something else like that. I think that the availability of where that tech tree is and how you get access to it would add a lot of diversity to, I think, what's offered right now.

Brian Eng:

So, I'm going to go back to video games a little bit, because what that makes me think of is every civilization has the same tech track and they're researching, but they could be at different points of researching it. But through espionage, you can steal technology. I think that would be one way to introduce the element you're speaking of, of being able to use someone else's tech tree, even though you have your own state of the tech tree.

Dave Eng:

And I think there's something like that in Manhattan Project when played with the espionage component where you can use someone else's technology on the board.

Brian Eng:

That's a good one too. I forgot about that one. So, I had a similar point here, the shared tech tracks. So, we spoke about Tapestry, another one is Lost Ruins of Arnak. Has the shared research track there where I think it's the first person to hit certain points, gets a bonus and things like that. I think actually Tapestry does that as well, right?

Dave Eng:

Yeah.

Brian Eng:

First person to...

Well, it's not every spot, it's at certain milestones.

Yeah, right, right, right. So, it's kind of same thing of between shared or personal tracks, and it could be shared unique tech trees or shared tech trees that are the same.

So yeah, I had that point. I'll go on to my next one, is you see a lot of variation in tech trees mixed with, in one of my examples, 7 Wonders, I talked about the tableau building and tech trees. And another big game that that element is Terraforming Mars, is another one where you're, it's more of a tableau building, but it gives you that, oh well if you have these cards out, you can get special abilities or unlock special things because you have specific tech out.

Dave Eng:

And did you have something else for that, Brian? Because I'll go into...

Brian Eng:

No, go ahead.

Dave Eng:

So I think mine builds off a little bit on that, which is, I call it expansion of decisions based on player actions. And the game I like to reference here is Lords of Waterdeep, which we played a lot of on Steam, actually. And what I like about that game is, one, I think it's, just Beyond the Sun is a quintessential tech tree, I think Lords of Waterdeep, for me, is a quintessential a worker placement. And here you can expand those worker spots by building those buildings.

Meaning that if it's Brian's building and I choose to send a worker there, Brian gets a bonus and I get my worker action and something else like that. So I think that I would like to see something, kind of like with Space Station Phoenix and kind of like Beyond the Sun, where if you research a tech, first, you get a little bit of a bonus, which Beyond the Sun has event cards that happen that do that right now. But until you research that tech yourself, you could use that tech and you could get that benefit, but the person that reached it first or has it right now would also get a follow action. So, I think that provides a little bit more synergy in play. Everyone's getting something whenever you do something, which I usually like in games, because it feels like you are contributing to the progression of the game overall.

Brian Eng:

And we talk about this first, this bonus for being first. I think in Beyond the Sun, the kind of inherent bonus is just being able to choose, if it's one of those spots where the two different categories line up. Being able to choose that in itself is a bonus because you can tailor the tech tree to either benefit you or try to hinder your opponents.

Dave Eng:

And I forgot to bring it up before, Brian, because you talked about video games. The one video game that I always referenced the tech tree for that I actually didn't write in my notes, because I forgot to write it down was, do you play the original Dead Space? I think it was like 2010. So Dead Space, if you're listening to this and you have not played it before, it's a survival horror game set in space. If you've seen Event Horizon, I feel like it's Event Horizon, the game, but all the weapons are upgradable.

And I remember when I played the first game, you have to pick up nodes in the game to upgrade your weapon, but the way you upgrade them is a little tree. And once you commit down to a spot, you're really limiting how you want to upgrade this weapon. So for me, in survival horrors, I get panicky and I just spam shots. So, for me, I'm like power means nothing. I just want to as large a magazine as possible. So, whenever I get scared, I can just start spamming spots. But once you do that, it's like, okay, well you're sacrificing power now for just additional ammo. And I thought that was kind of cool because that gives you a little bit more insight on how you want to upgrade your weapon. And I know it's seen tech trees in other games before, but that one for Dead Space really sticks out to me.

Brian Eng:

So, I can't think of a specific game that functions like this, but that made me think of introducing almost a legacy element to a tech tree. And the game I'm thinking of is, again, a video game. I'm forgetting the name. Maybe you can remind me. I think you introduced me to it. They did make a board game. It's a deck builder, rogue like game.

Dave Eng:

Is it Slay the Spire?

Brian Eng:

Yes.

Dave Eng:

That's what I'm thinking of.

Brian Eng:

Of. So, where you can, again, not specifically talking about in that game, but it makes me think of that game where it's like maybe a game where you can research a tech tree or progress up a tech tree for a game, and then that tech tree can persist through multiple plays. And I'm sure there must be games that do that.

Dave Eng:

I'm sure there are, just can't think of any.

Brian Eng:

Can't think of anything right now.

Dave Eng:

Yeah. And I know in Slay the Spire, as you play, you unlock different cards, which can be included in your deck.

Brian Eng:

So, it changes I guess, your opportunity of what could be in your deck as you go along. Again, that's another way that it could change through, each play through, you can unlock branches to a tech tree and that kind of thing. So, some type of legacy aspect would be kind of neat.

Dave Eng:

That would be cool. I haven't seen that yet, but I'd like to. And I think also Slay the Spire has a tabletop game now. I remember seeing it on a Kickstarter.

Brian Eng:

I know, I saw that. But I'm like, but it works so good in the video games.

Dave Eng:

Yeah, but that's the thing.

Brian Eng:

No bookkeeping.

Dave Eng:

Yeah, I don't want to do that bookkeeping in person. The game just does it for me. So I got a third one, Brian. You want to go talk about this one or should I go?

Brian Eng:

Yeah, sure. Go ahead. Go ahead.

Dave Eng:

So, mine, and we talked a little bit about this before when we were discussing Space Station Phoenix. My number three is constructive and deconstructive tech trees and tracks. So at Space Station Phoenix, we talked about it before, you have a set of cars and those cars are use ships and your ships have actions. But ultimately, you want to use your ships to take actions that allow you to increase your engine and start building different aspects to your space station in Space Station Phoenix. But ultimately, as the game goes on, you want to cannibalize those ships in order to build your space station. So, you're actually, you're deconstructing your engine as you go on.

And see this with, Brian, remember we played Flamme Rouge? I think at one of the PAX’s, which I thought was, I like deck builders. And I thought this was a really interesting example, that it was also highly thematic. Because if you're thinking about it, as you are cycling, you get tired. So, you don't have these fast sprint cards and everything else. So, I think Space Station Phoenix functions in a lot of the same way that Flamme Rouge does, which means that you basically need to recycle your cards. In Flamme Rouge, you have to, in Space Station Phoenix, you don't have to, but you will lose out on a bunch of points. And I think that feature games that take advantage of that deconstructive element would be cool to see.

Brian Eng:

Yeah, that's definitely one. I'm trying to think of another implementation of maybe some type of sabotage to an opponent's tech tree would be a neat way to implement that in a different way.

Dave Eng:

Sabotage where you just start cannibalizing their ships or cars or something like that.

Brian Eng:

So, you can research. I mean, maybe this is just because I think of games in the sense that I want that direct conflict all the time. You research this new technology, I can go in and just make it or block off a branch of your tech tree or something like that would be interesting to me. But I'm sure a lot of gamers would absolutely hate that.

Dave Eng:

Maybe you can block off a branch on the global tech tree, but my personal tech tree.

Brian Eng:

Or I guess it doesn't need to be permanent or just, actually, you know what? Beyond the Sun does this to a very small degree where some of those event cards where you can make a technology cost more to research in the future. So that is it to a very minimal extent, which is probably better. Again, they're not going for a heavy conflict game.

Dave Eng:

No, no. And it's not an apt comparison between Eclipse and Beyond the Sun, but I would rather play Beyond the Sun than Eclipse. The whole ship building conflict part, rolling tons of dice wasn't very favorable to me.

Brian Eng:

Yeah, I definitely, I mean, I like both of those games, but I do like my conflict.

Dave Eng:

Yeah, that's true. But I mean, as of recording this, we were talking about playing Twilight Imperium on BGA. And Brian, you're like, "We have to play it real time, otherwise it'll take over a year to play a game."

Brian Eng:

Yeah, we'll have to find, I don't think it's going to work at two players.

Dave Eng:

No, we're going to have to find-

Brian Eng:

Because it's a heavy negotiation game.

Dave Eng:

Yeah. I don't know how it's going to work out, but we'll try it out.

Brian Eng:

That's all I've got for the twist and variations.

Dave Eng:

Yeah, I talked about my three as well.

Brian Eng:

All right. Well, I guess that wraps up our tech tree episode of AP Table Talk. If you'd like to hear more content like this, please be sure to subscribe. You can also check out more of our content, projects and other information about us at universityxp.com.

Dave Eng:

Thanks for joining us. We'd also love it if you took some time to rate the show. We live to lift others with learning. So, if you found this episode useful, consider sharing it with someone who could also benefit. Until next time, game on!

References:

7 Wonders | Board Game | BoardGameGeek. (2010). https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/68448/7-wonders

Age of Civilization | Board Game | BoardGameGeek. (2019). https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/264647/age-civilization

American Historical Association. (2021, November). Playing with the Past. Perspectives on History. https://www.historians.org/research-and-publications/perspectives-on-history/november-2021/playing-with-the-past-teaching-slavery-with-board-game

Beyond the Sun | Board Game | BoardGameGeek. (2020). https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/317985/beyond-sun

Dead Space Weapons and RIG Upgrades, Locations and Tiers Guide. (2023, February 4). VULKK.com. https://vulkk.com/2023/02/04/dead-space-weapons-and-rig-upgrades-and-locations-guide/#h-plasma-cutter-component-locations

Deck, Bag, and Pool Building | Board Game Mechanic | BoardGameGeek. (n.d.). https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgamemechanic/2664/deck-bag-and-pool-building

Eclipse: Second Dawn for the Galaxy | Board Game | BoardGameGeek. (2020). https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/246900/eclipse-second-dawn-galaxy

Endeavor: Age of Sail | Board Game | BoardGameGeek. (2018.). https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/233398/endeavor-age-sail

Eng, D. (2019, November 19). Achievements. Retrieved November 9, 2023, from https://www.universityxp.com/blog/2019/11/19/achievements

Eng, D. (2019, October 29). Gaming with Motivation. Retrieved November 9, 2023, from https://www.universityxp.com/blog/2019/10/29/gaming-with-motivation

Eng, D. (2019, September 26). Game Theme. Retrieved November 9, 2023, from https://www.universityxp.com/blog/2019/9/26/game-theme

Eng, D. (2019, September 26). Game Theme. Retrieved November 9, 2023, from https://www.universityxp.com/blog/2019/9/26/game-theme

Eng, D. (2020, February 20). Game Components. Retrieved November 9, 2023, from https://www.universityxp.com/blog/2020/2/20/game-components

Eng, D. (2022, October 25). What is Analysis Paralysis?. Retrieved November 9, 2023, from https://www.universityxp.com/blog/2022/10/25/what-is-analysis-paralysis

Flamme Rouge | Board Game | BoardGameGeek. (2016). https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/199478/flamme-rouge

Gaia Project | Board Game | BoardGameGeek. (2017s). https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/220308/gaia-project

Legacy Game | Board Game Mechanic | BoardGameGeek. (n.d.). https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgamemechanic/2824/legacy-game

Loewen, J. W. (2017). What Learning About Slavery Can Teach Us About Ourselves. Learning for Justice, Issue 55. https://www.learningforjustice.org/magazine/spring-2017/what-learning-about-slavery-can-teach-us-about-ourselves

Lords of Waterdeep | Board Game | BoardGameGeek. (2012). https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/110327/lords-waterdeep

Lost Ruins of Arnak | Board Game | BoardGameGeek. (2020). https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/312484/lost-ruins-arnak

Mechanism: Tableau Building | Family | BoardGameGeek. (n.d.). https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgamefamily/27646/mechanism-tableau-building

Negotiation | Board Game Mechanic | BoardGameGeek. (n.d.). https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgamemechanic/2915/negotiation

Noonan, M. (n.d.). Dominant Strategy in Game Theory | Overview & Examples - Video & Lesson Transcript. Study.com. https://study.com/learn/lesson/dominant-strategy-game-theory-concept-examples.html

Scythe | Board Game | BoardGameGeek. (2016). https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/169786/scythe

Space Station Phoenix | Board Game | BoardGameGeek. (2022). https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/356414/space-station-phoenix

Tapestry | Board Game | BoardGameGeek. (2019). https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/286096/tapestry

Tech Trees / Tech Tracks | Board Game Mechanic | BoardGameGeek. (n.d.). https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgamemechanic/2849/tech-trees-tech-tracks

Terraforming Mars | Board Game | BoardGameGeek. (2016). https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/167791/terraforming-mars

The Game Shelf. (2019, January 1). Shanties and Scurvy: Endeavor: Age of Sail. The Game Shelf. https://thegameshelf.blogspot.com/2019/01/shanties-and-scurvy-endeavor-age-of-sail.htm

The Manhattan Project | Board Game | BoardGameGeek. (2012). https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/63628/manhattan-project

Twilight Imperium: Fourth Edition | Board Game | BoardGameGeek. (2017). https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/233078/twilight-imperium-fourth-edition

Worker Placement | Board Game Mechanic | BoardGameGeek. (n.d.). https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgamemechanic/2082/worker-placement

Cite this Episode

Eng, D. & Eng, B. (Hosts). (2024, May 5). AP Table Talk Tech Trees Tech Tracks. (No. 111) [Audio podcast episode]. Experience Points. University XP. https://www.universityxp.com/podcast/111

Internal Ref: UXP6HISXGNL4